Atheists In Kenya (AIK)

Promoting the Growth and Interaction of Atheists in Kenya

Home

member-becomeJust about everyone is an atheist when it comes to other gods — the gods that other people believe in or that nobody believes in any more. We Kenyans are indeed atheists about all gods because there’s no reliable evidence for any god. There is also extensive evidence that all gods are fictional characters — myths created mainly by primitive people who had little understanding of how our universe operates. We all like myths and other stories, but we don’t have to believe them.

We would like Kenyans to understand that all religions are based on myths. That religion has not place in the 21st Century Kenyan Society. That we can reorganize society around secular values.

By becoming a member of the Atheists In Kenya, you will join a group of brave Kenyans who are willing to challenge religious faith transform our supremely religious society!

Help us grow the Atheists
Community in Kenya!

 

180 comments on “Home

  1. John Waruiru
    March 20, 2015

    I’ve been through my and other people’s minds been trying to understand this thing religion. So far the best conclusion I can reach is; “don’t confuse my innocent brain with deities coz even them disagree”.

    Liked by 1 person

    • allano
      January 16, 2016

      John, you have already admitted that you believe in deities.

      Like

  2. WILFRED NZAU ING'ETI
    March 21, 2015

    my experience in the other side pre-empts its genuiness and authenticity,hence my wish to faithfully join you..

    Like

  3. Sammy
    March 23, 2015

    It is written that you will come and its not a supprise at all. The initial and fundementals of your faith/ belief is denial of God the creator of all things. The denial of Jesus christ who died for our sins. Without the fear of God this world is in chaos. You promote the rot in the society and decay of our morals. You people are blinded by evil, you are at the worst stage of life. I believe at your age most probably u have learnt what is in the bible. Go back and read it once more.

    Like

    • Chestnut Muchiri
      April 1, 2015

      It it takes some religious nut case to convince you of a place called hell for you to live right then you are a terrible person. One does not need religion or to fear gods to be moral.

      Like

      • Sammy
        April 22, 2015

        AIK is just the woork of the devil. It’s Satan at work but I know one day thou not all, you will come running. God still loves you

        Like

      • bernard
        September 23, 2015

        One of satan’s biggest endeavors is to convince men that there is neither hell nor heaven. Make them believe that its all about science, until its too late. Science is good in that it makes our lives comfortable, however when it comes to the difficult questions it backs out. That tells me that there is something more and greater than science.

        Like

      • allano
        January 16, 2016

        Hi Chestnut! What does one need to be moral?

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 18, 2016

        Whoever lives a morally upright life for fear of hell is deluded. This is far from Christianity. If one is non-believer because he thought there is an eternally burning hell to prompt him to act right is just as deceived now as he was then. The bible does not teach such a thing. It does not take a genius to notice the inconsistency is such ideas. It means there is no death in the first place! Little errors lead to grievious erroneous conclusions

        Like

    • Dan Ole Moiko
      July 11, 2015

      Sammy, i concur with you totally, its nothing new, its been there, and more of them will come to try and bring confusion in the pretext of knowledge and enlightenment. It is futile, because in it, they fall, they get blinded by their own folly. Atheists, they were there, they will be, until when its time for them to realize they were wrong all along.

      Like

      • Asad Al Walhaalbilal
        December 18, 2015

        I can only read very emotional stupid christian comments reflecting hatred for not being what they want you to be.I am an ATHIEST and I have no regrets for what I am.I always and I’ll always say God/gods are all man made to fool people.

        Like

    • pat
      January 26, 2016

      you realise there is no relationship between someone dying o a cross and ur sins being forgiven….right?….

      Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 27, 2016

        Pat, your comment on “no relationship between death on the cross and forgiveness of sins” is confusing. It seems to admit someone died on the cross (which is fact) then seems to admit also that there is sin (which is fact) but only denies the existence of a relationship between the two. It begs the question, what is sin?

        Otherwise it would be silly if sin does not exist and someone did not die to claim there is no relationship between two non-existent things. If they (the someone and sin) dont exist then you dont require a comment on their relationship. So what is sin?

        Secondly, If the relationship exists in a theological sense, you equally need a theological argument to show the relationship doesnot exist.

        The cross is a demonstration of the sinfulness of sin and that the law is immutable.

        Blessings

        Like

  4. Jboy
    March 24, 2015

    I despise not them, but their nature,
    Hypocrites they are, even in the leisure,
    All defend Him, ready to fight,
    Claiming the spirit, gives them the might,
    ‘The name of God’, all take it personal,
    Not taking note, He loves us all,
    Pagans, atheist and them the same,
    Pagans, atheist, before Him have fame,
    Belives in a bulding, for a church,
    My body His temple, and that’s the much,
    To keep the sabbath, but not the words,
    Love your neighbour, they hate rastas,
    Like a bad smell, from foul breath,
    I love my friends, but not their faith.

    Like

    • Dan Ole Moiko
      July 11, 2015

      jboy, you seem confused, you dont know what you are talking about. Do you even know the meaning of the word Atheist? How can God you deny existence of love you? How would you expect love from something not existing? Or what you were writing was coming from a mind deceived by something you inebriated?

      Liked by 1 person

    • linda smith
      January 7, 2016

      I agree with every thing you say Iam A believer Of Yawha wish is his name God is just A title Sabbath is A command Of YAWHA

      Like

  5. kelvin
    March 25, 2015

    Having been a christian for more than 20 years, i can now see the reality of things as a free thinker. why do we have to believe in illogical, fallacious ‘stories'(religious)& myths in real life at this time and age? i think its time we start thinking and reasoning on our own other than blindly adhering to doctorines that have no sense in real life. its time we be realistic in our thinking and reasoning and atleast bling a drop of sanity in kenya(and the world in general.

    Like

    • Robert
      April 3, 2015

      “i think its time we start thinking and reasoning on our own other than blindly adhering to doctorines that have no sense in real life. its time we be realistic in our thinking and reasoning and atleast bling a drop of sanity in kenya(and the world in genera”
      I believe that religious dogma is what caused or suppressed Human capacity of reason which enabled Galileo Galilei to challenge the Church and Albert Einstein to pave the way for relativity theory. Now to me this makes more sense than living in a world of miracles and revelations which have no bearing on reality..its like the complex number in mathematics. Human though needs to be free and not caged in religious doctrines

      Like

      • Dan Ole Moiko
        July 11, 2015

        Robert, what you think was paved by who? relativity theory? All that was there even before that theory came to be, you think what has been discovered wasn’t there before?

        Like

    • Dan Ole Moiko
      July 11, 2015

      Kelvin, at least stop that! bling or bring? nway, what reasoning do you mean? So whats special about this age and time in Kenya for you to think freethinking will change your situation? do you even have enough food for you to start free thinking? You say you were a christian for 20 years? Honestly, you were not, because if truly you were you would have known where the truth lies, but evidently, you never found it. Free think, but your thinking is limited.

      Like

      • Leonard
        August 11, 2015

        Since you want to mean that this freethinking has been there for ages! Ok, true maybe, but what makes it not to be palatable or done today. So your religion has been there for ages, what has it done to change anything? Nothing, just more pathetic living. Atleast what he meant is that people nowadays are more enlightened and can get more info than before, before we had no internet to get info or research your lies in form of a bible.

        Like

  6. kelvin
    March 25, 2015

    Having been a christian for more than 20 years, i can now see the reality of things as a free thinker. why do we have to believe in illogical, fallacious ‘stories'(religious)& myths in real life at this time and age? i think its time we start thinking and reasoning on our own other than blindly adhering to doctorines that have no sense in real life. its time we be realistic in our thinking and reasoning and atleast bling a drop of sanity in kenya(and the world in general).

    Like

  7. moses maina
    March 26, 2015

    Oh My God!

    Like

  8. Paul
    March 27, 2015

    Fools says in their own hearts “There is no God” sorry man, you shall know the truth and it will set you free.

    Like

    • sam
      November 25, 2015

      if fools can figure it out . why cant you

      Like

  9. Mick
    March 28, 2015

    Religion came about because humans are curious and weak like hell. For starters, why are there two accounts of creation in the Bible? Is it because the authors were too un-evolved to sync their ish together? Wow.. thank god i’m agnostic.

    Like

    • Monicah
      June 11, 2015

      which are the two accounts mick?

      Like

      • MK
        November 29, 2015

        Genesis 1:1-2:3 and Genesis 2:4-25

        Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 12, 2016

      Mick there is only one account of creation in Genesis 1 in chronology, and an expansion of of how it happened in Genesi 2 and they are in perfect harmony. The supposed contradiction doesnot exist and the supposition that they are two distincts accounts is false. If this is the cause for agnostisim, you need not. It is as firm as daylight. You can believe.

      Like

  10. dimran
    March 29, 2015

    As for me, I embrace God, I grew up as a Christian and I will wilfully remain a believer of Jesus Christ. I haven’t lost any freedom, I haven’t lost logic I am contended. For the atheist walk your path.

    Like

    • wex
      June 23, 2015

      That’s the spirit we shouldn’t be condemning anyone for his/her choice of religion,its afree world,i chose no god coz the true values of success are working hard or rather smart,even the most religous person will not pray for riches,he’ll look for employment.

      Like

      • Dan Ole Moiko
        July 11, 2015

        wex, thats the most stupidest thing i ever heard, the Bible itself advocates for working, it does not say people should just laze around and expect riches, and about being smart, you might be as smart as the next persons stupidity.

        Like

  11. dimran
    March 29, 2015

    Omumia kalukha khumwami, Nyasaye aliwo

    Like

  12. Joseph Oruoch
    April 4, 2015

    The question of God is about definition and criteria. If the sun is your God then there is no dispute about God’s existence.

    Like

  13. Ihiga riumu
    April 4, 2015

    U are ua own god and ua own devil!believe in your self n all will b well.iam who i am.letS preach the gospel of i.remove harry frm u.iam with u always

    Like

  14. Thor
    April 5, 2015

    I was reading Alan Guth’s, Neil deGrasse Tyson’s and Brian Greene’s pro Big Bang cosmological inflational proposals. Inflation is supported also by astronomical data.

    Like

  15. Jackson
    April 8, 2015

    Us blinded by evil? Why do I find that ironic! You are the one who blindly believes in a God who commanded Joshua to exterminate the Caananites.
    You tell me, whos being blinded by evil?

    Like

    • Leonard
      August 11, 2015

      True that.

      Like

      • Harry
        August 11, 2015

        Leonard, text me on 0717 110066.

        Like

  16. antoy
    April 9, 2015

    Religion is nonsence

    Like

  17. Patrick Akaka
    April 13, 2015

    “Religion is opium to control the mass.”(Karl Max). It is a high when individual should be enlightened. We should forget foreign God of the books** ,bible,Qur’an, Mormon and many other so called scriptures that has confused our society. Just see how stupidity has befallen in so called prayer building. Please note God died long time in his books,you are GOD yourself you can do all magic, miracles, and other mistries using just your mind.

    Like

    • Ticia
      January 9, 2016

      Iko shida hapa

      Like

  18. Kwasi
    May 5, 2015

    The greatest power is the human. That’s where god came from.

    Like

  19. ng'ang'a kimani
    May 7, 2015

    hey

    Like

  20. fishing charters
    May 13, 2015

    Open Source Blog site – Open source at Google with news concerning Google’s open source projects as well as programs.

    Like

  21. sandblasting
    May 14, 2015

    OpenSocial API Blog – OpenSocial gives a set of APIs for
    social applications across a number of websites.

    Like

  22. ssw
    May 20, 2015

    When I read about atheists in Kenya, I was excited, that finally there is a place that is free of prejudice and intolerance, where I will objectively seek to find the truth, the meaning of life love happiness and pursuit of it all.Well, I was disappointed, I found the very things I was running away from, Prejudice and intolerance towards people who believe in whatever they have chosen to believe as if they have a lesser right to believe what they believe in without a care for the reasons why they believe in what they believe in. That much Anger and hate I cannot handle. If you claim atheism is a solution then lets see the opposite of what you are fighting. Meanwhile, I stay away from all this.

    Like

    • Leonard
      August 11, 2015

      It is all because the so-called religionists don’t bring constructive arguments here, in the first place what are they doing here? We don’t attend their churches or mosques.

      Like

  23. pat.
    June 5, 2015

    I am Deist i believe in the God of Einstein and Spinoza. A universal divinity not aspiring to condemn human beings to eternal fire. I agree organised religion is an encumbrance to human progression since people live in fear of revulsion of an omnipotent being. Equally, i find it obnoxious that religion always blames the devil or sin for bad deeds while taking credit for all the good deeds. This is despite the barbaric history of religion. In their infantile stages, Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) engaged in a callous evangelical pursuit that left behind unsubstantiated carnage and pillage. Today radical Islam and christian fundamentalism are responsible for global carnage and insecurity.
    Thirdly, i loath at organised religion for condemning irreligious people as cold blooded hell bound sinners irrespective of their positive contribution to humanity. For example Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are the largest philanthropists in world yet they are agnostic. Therefore, how sure are we that they may burn in hell (if it exists) because their souls are not saved. Finally, religion is subjective and not objective. if one is born in a christian family it is more probable that he will become a christian and will believe in a christian God as the only true God. However, if he was born in a Muslim family then he would follow the teachings of Mohamed and Allah. Therefore, this logical inconsistency affirms my thesis that religion is beyond the purview of human mind.

    Like

  24. Skitah
    June 15, 2015

    Help me, I recently became atheist but I am facing all sorts of “things”. I want to know my rights as an atheist and what I am entitled not to do!

    Like

  25. wex
    June 23, 2015

    Been an atheist for so long,rules governing religion are not practical at all in the 21st century,live free,live right.

    Like

  26. Saul Paul
    June 24, 2015

    Hehehehe, how can you oppose what doesn’t exist.why are you bothered by an entity that doesn’t exist?

    Like

  27. optics
    June 30, 2015

    Atheism is a form of religion , a disbelieve in God.
    Atheism may hinder free thinking.
    So be keen on what you believe in.

    Like

    • MK
      November 29, 2015

      Atheism is not a rejection of god/ gods or a denial of god/gods; it is a lack of belief in god/ gods. ( how can one reject or deny that; that dosent exist?)
      The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in god gods and supernatural beings.
      Aethism is not a religion. to qualify it as a religion it has to:-
      have a belief in supernatural beings (god/gods).
      Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
      A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the god/gods.
      forms of communication with god/ gods.( prayer)
      A social group bound together by the above.
      ps this list is in no way exhaustive

      Atheism is a lack of belief, not a philosophy. ( non-toothfairism… lol)My disbelief in the Tooth Fairy cannot be a philosophy of life.

      Like

  28. Denis
    July 5, 2015

    hey guys? i have heard of FIKA and would like to be a memver,can someone guide me? I will appreciate

    Like

  29. Denis
    July 5, 2015

    member not member. typo

    Like

  30. Kaddo
    July 9, 2015

    I think we created God, God did not create us. We created him as a refuge to run to when our minds stretches to its maximum limits of trying to unravel complexities of life. And fails. So we transfer responsibility to him and blame to his alter-ego, another creation of our mind, Satan, when things absolutely fail to work.
    Is this all there is? This struggle, with nothing for posterity? Nothing my grandfather did or said exists now, and your grandfather too, and all the grandfathers before them. Why do we do so much for so little to outlive our time here? I think it all boils down that it is all for nothing. Having realized that, the race of life is to be as comfortable as is passable amongst fellow species of kind and within means and reach. But what if that comfort level just is unattainable? Ama ask again, Is God/god real or a figment we create to absolve ourselves of responsibility for things out of our spectrum of control? Is he able to stop bad things or provide good things? Is he willing to? If he is able and willing, why does he allow evil to sprout and thrive? If he is neither willing nor able, why call him God/god anyway?

    Like

  31. kaddo
    July 11, 2015

    According to sociolgist Phil Zuckerman, countries with high concentration of religious people like, yes, Kenya and by extension the whole of Africa and south America, have more murder rates, rape, wars, intolerance, its people are more nationalistic, prejudiced, antisemitic, racist, dogmatic, ethnocentric, closed-minded, and authoritarian, as opposed to lets say, Scandinavian countries where almost 86% of population do not believe in any diety. And they are all in top 6 most developed countries in the world

    Like

  32. abuu
    July 12, 2015

    I am an Atheist. Thing is Religious Dogma is so strong to break free from it is quite liberating and relieving (considering its forced on you from childhood to adulthood).The very contradictions in religions(and they are many) just couldn’t live up to the high standards to deserve my ‘blind faith’. For instance why live 70 years and then burn eternaly just because you didn’t accept a christ who you can’t verify existed in a form he’s portrayed just because the bible says so…let alone the fact that there are countless ancient religious texts. It is no secret the nature of Religious goods is destructive and evil. How can God command killing of people? How can a loving sweep all humanity with floods?i wouldn’t exterminate my children for disobeying me -its simply beyond cruelty…and that is if you can really believe Noah and his family collected all the billions of flora and fauna species and packed them in a really big ark that they somehow managed to build.I prefer to believe in nothing but not a comic book.

    Like

  33. John Mburu
    July 13, 2015

    The most interesting thing about this god concept is that even the staunch believers cannot explain with clarity what they believe in,everything that is true and real must have a logical explanation.

    Like

  34. John Mburu
    July 13, 2015

    Sometimes I think the best use for these religious texts is as refference materials for history students studying ancient civilisations or the ancient roman cultures.

    Like

  35. carls
    July 31, 2015

    To oppose something it must exist forehand. Atheists think that there is no God because they are too dumb to comprehend His ways. you don’t need to read the holy Bible to know that He truly exists, just take a thoughtful walk. I am one person who has interest in science. So far so good I have made a discovery that my atheist brothers will disregard. God can prove science but science can’t prove Him. God understands all science but science doesn’t understand all the ways of God. Let me take you for a thoughtful ride ….in the beginning there was light, the light was with God and the light was God…. I hope you know that every creation in the universe and beyond is a product of light (speaking from scientific grounds). I hope you know that that verse was written before scientist were able to link light to life and other creations.

    Like

    • MK
      November 29, 2015

      interesting claims first if you practice the christian faith take the time to read the bible indepth genesis to revelation, try and reconcile the instructions to kill disorbidient children, stone to death fonicator., the instruction from God to carry out genocide of the amalakites. the damnation to hell for a thought crime… the list is so long it could fill a book; ohh wait it did! the BIBLE ! then read up on the history of the bible and its claimed authors. then read history as far back as the bronze age. what you will discover are the numerous examples of abrahamic plagiarisim from older cultures and pagan practices and religions. and as to the clain the bible is the the oldest book well that is wrong the rig veda predates it by atleast 1000 years. and in those ancient times you just look up akenaten of egypt and their sun deity amon the bringer of light- sun light and ra the god of air- air that breaths life into all living and akenaten united the two to form amonra and presto alakazam monotheism the god of light that gives breath… does that sound familiar? and omnipresence well air is everywhre and he is thus everywhere… as for the yet unexplainerble phenomena science and scientist are honest enought to acknowledge they havent figured it out and when they are wrong they acknowledge it. not having an explanation should not lead one to the the default position that god did it. many phenomina were attributed to the supernatural till science showed otherwise. one belief was disease was caused by evil spirits well that was till the germ theory. same case for epileptic fits versus signs of demon posession.
      but you know what you can look it all up for yourself trust nothing i have said you have a wealth of information. read mister read the information is their and available
      ohh and on everythig being light. that is in the realm of a philosophical thought/ view. and sicence has something to say about that. light is both a partical (photon) and a wave ( electomagnetic radiation) and neither are in contradiction of each other. but the claim that everything is light is falacious and this is why all matter is made up of atoms and atoms are made up of electrons and protons and they have mass but photons dont!

      Like

  36. gudda
    August 5, 2015

    I hate religious people you cannot reason with them always surrounding themselves with stupid dogmas and definitions.

    Like

    • kim
      September 5, 2015

      it is not necessary to hate anyone

      Like

      • gudda
        September 6, 2015

        Point well taken

        Like

  37. gudda
    August 5, 2015

    Religulous!

    Like

  38. Kristine
    August 12, 2015

    At Gerben Law Firm I provide just one trademark registration service due to the fact that I do not
    care about doing partial” searches.

    Like

  39. Rev Joseph Simiyu
    September 12, 2015

    SEND ME YOUR BOOKS OR BIBLE COURSE I WOULD LIKE TO LEARN MORE ABOUT YOUR MINISTRY

    Like

  40. chepkonga Solomon
    September 23, 2015

    at last am where i belong. am free in mind

    Like

    • Harry
      September 23, 2015

      Please register to become a member. Send KShs. 500 to 0720 549512 — Then we shall add you to our membershio, and WhatsApp group.

      Like

  41. bernard
    September 23, 2015

    One of satan’s biggest endeavors is to convince men that there is neither hell nor heaven. Make them believe that its all about science, until its too late. Science is good in that it makes our lives comfortable, however when it comes to the difficult questions it backs out. That tells me that there is something more and greater than science

    Like

    • Leonard
      September 24, 2015

      I would like for you to show me satan and how he convinces us to follow or think factually or scientifically. Also explain to me how, according to the bible, Noah collected all the species to the ark and what the carnivores were eating in the ark. Yaani story ya the ark is one of the most ridiculous stories in the bible.

      Like

      • bernard
        September 25, 2015

        I have never seen gravity but I have seen gravity at work. I therefore cannot show you gravity. I believe there is gravity through reading, through seeing, through hearing. Therefore it is by faith that I believe there is gravity, though I have never seen gravity. I believe there are powers and forces out there which we cannot see but they are busy at work. We get to see the results of their work.

        I have heard that the world at the bottom of the oceans is beautiful and expansive. I hear the same about the outer spaces of the universe. They say we men have only explored a very small fraction of these places. These places are far above our understanding. They are greater than our minds and our knowledge. They simply have not fitted into our understanding. Similarly, God has not fitted into our little understanding and into our minute minds. He is so great and big to fit in. But for they that believe and try to seek him, He gives some little knowledge about himself to them. That is why sometimes we completely refuse to believe or rubbish some of these things that we hear about Him. Why? because the way He operates, the things He does, they are far beyond our understanding.

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 12, 2016

        Leornard God did not say collect all species, did He? If collecting all species is unitelligent, I wonder how you suppose that thats what God said. Actually the dimensions of the ark was far much greater to accomodate all KINDS of animals from which all species develop. You dont need all species of dogs. Its simple science and I wonder how you missed it. Read it again, now objectively. The flood account is fascinating with details.

        Like

    • MK
      November 29, 2015

      and i quote your statement ” Therefore it is by faith that I believe there is gravity ”
      the presence or absence is not subject to our persepective it is an immutable fact acting on the real physical plane. it is a fact( look up the defination of fact) inline with the laws of physics. and the theory of gravity. and before you say its ‘just a “theory” ‘ (please look up the scientific defination of theory!). it requires no faith( please look up defination of faith!) fot gravity to exert influence on the physical world. conversely not beliving in gravity dosent negate it.
      as for the deep of the sea, well that would be the marianas trench and yes scientists have explored it found their are life forms even that deep.( please look it up)
      as for deep space science and scientists are still exploring and if the past is anything to go by in time their will be rational scientific explanations. just coz we cant explain it is no proof that god exists or make the asertion god did it! and if such extraordinary claims are made then extraordinary proof must be availed! if not the claims the can be dismissed without need to disprove them! why you may ask? Because the burden of proof is with the one making the claim. ps that is one of the tenets of jurisprudence.
      if you look at history a number of things attributed to god/gods have had sound science explain them eg the origin of the universe( big bang theory), the origin of life on earth( evolution and abiogenesis) , lightening, volcanic eruptions, the lunar and solar cycles, causes of diseases. It is an endless list of phenomena attributed to the supernatural. but dont trust my word you have acess to a wealth of information look it up for youself.

      Like

      • bernard
        December 6, 2015

        ” just coz we cant explain it is no proof that god exists or make the assertion god did it! ” I will quote you.
        If we cannot make the assertion that God did it, then definitely we should be able to point towards the direction of he who did it. Thousands of generations have tried to deny that God did it, but non has satisfactorily told men who did it then. There is only one book that gives an account on how it happened. The name of the book is the bible. Science cannot comprehend that book. Anything it says looks stupid to science. A deep interaction with that book opens a set of eyes deep within man that causes him to see beyond science and religion. It makes him aware at a personal level, that religion and science are/were made by his fellow men and that what matters most is not science or religion but a personal walk with Him who created everything. Him who cannot be defined by time. Because time is also science.

        Like

      • MK
        December 13, 2015

        well if you count the bible as the source of your knowledge of god be aware that it is the product of human authors. some books having multiple authors! and men are fallible. the bible contains over 400 contradictions and multiple errors. if the asertion it is the inspired word of god it ought not to! it should be clear concise and contain no errors and what i am reffering to is not the english translations but the original greek text which comprise a significant portion from which the modern bible is drawn form. please read up on bible history.
        anyway that aside as i had stated earlier sicence relies on facts. got
        no miracles, nope;
        no magic, nope;
        icidentally look up the defination of the two, they refer to the same thing!!

        please realise one thing i dont need to prove the non existence of an imaginary bieng. like i dont have to prove the non existence of santa clause! neither do i have to prove the non existence of god! you make the claim he exists the burden of proof is upon you making the claim that he exists; just like in court if the prosecution makes a claim it is upon them to provide evidence to substanciate that claim!

        the same goes for a claim of having a personal relationship with an imaginary friend! that you talk to?, that grants you personal favours?, that watches over you while you sleep?
        this is the product of social engineering and indoctrination it is mental programming that mimics a mental disorder (dellusions).
        please note before getting all worked up!!! i did not say it is a mental disorder, but it mimics one!
        and before you go ahead and tell me he is real because he answers prayers please look up confirmation bias… you can read that up
        and anyway if he did what of the prayers of starving dying babies in turukana, sudan, ethiopia, arent they important? thought human life is sacred according to him? or theirs dont cont?. either he dosent exist or he dont give a sh*t.
        and if you say either way it is his will; well you know that makes him a saddist!

        and that bible you revere please make the time to read it and i mean take a year to research and read in depth take your time annd be honest with yourself and try and reconcile what is in its pages with the romatic notions you think it contains of all the good stuff you presume it says read it come back after you have done so.

        Like

      • MK
        December 14, 2015

        and just a side note to one thing i must point out and i quote you
        ” generations have tried to deny that God did it, but non has satisfactorily told men who did it then. There is only one book that gives an account on how it happened.”
        well you are aware first that the creation story dates the earth to aprox 6,000 years old? you know that right?
        you are aware that their is scientific evidence that shows that that figure is wrong actually it is wrong in the order of several thousand times… consevertive concensus estimates the earth to be 4.5 billion years old and one of our acestors to be several million years old( 2.8 million years) please read up on lucy in ethiopia.
        and before you say we are not monkeys or decended from monkeys and all those other ridiculous counter arguements. be aware modern homosapiens, monkeys, gorillas, orangutans all have one common ancestor. so no we did not come from monkeys but from a common ancestor basically monkeys are our genetic cousins ( ohh and their is DNA to prove it) their is overwhelming evidence for evolution. read up on it their is plenty of information you can start here
        http://www.talkorigins.org/

        Like

  42. Humble Kinya
    September 23, 2015

    You are not an atheist, you just hate Christianity. All your articles are directing at hitting one faith.

    Like

  43. mwaura kibuku
    September 24, 2015

    would lyk to urgently join

    Like

    • Harry
      September 24, 2015

      Please send KShs 500 to 0720549512 then let me know. My number is 0717110066.

      Like

  44. Terence Munene
    September 25, 2015

    free at last….

    Like

  45. Mary Cheptoo
    September 28, 2015

    Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    Like

    • Harry
      October 5, 2015

      Really Mary?

      Like

    • MK
      November 29, 2015

      some choice that is, from a god that claims to give us free will and demands our love, and meets out punishment for not picking his way?ohh but he does it and he loves us.. some free will that is ha! that is a Sadomasochistic relationship.

      That aside interesting book you cherry pick quotes from! please go and read the entire book of deutironomy.
      well since you quote on its authority be aware it condones;
      >a man marrying his rape victim
      >stoning to death of sturbon children
      >slavery
      >genocide
      and that by any standard is utterly immoral.

      dont belive me pick up your bible and read it least you claim i am making a mis representation!! read it for yourself…

      Like

  46. Jamamuktar1997@gmail.com
    November 6, 2015

    It is actually quite liberating to become an atheist, I was tired of people telling me what exists after life, as if they have died and were reborn again. I wish my home country Kenya great endeavors, I will return to you soon. I just need to finish up college in the United States.

    Like

  47. magdalene
    November 16, 2015

    May God forgive all atheists for they do not know what they say & think.I fear for them when that hour of death knocks at their door.That’s the time they will wish they had accepted God & His Spirit to guide them.Repent & go back to God.His grace is all you need.

    Like

    • MK
      December 14, 2015

      their in lies the core of the matter. the fear of death! you have since childhood been indoctrinated with the idea that you must do good because their will be eternal reprisal in hell! that is ludicrous to meet out eternal punishment for a finite crime! it is both unjust and immoral!
      and the arguement that religion (here christianity) is a source of morality is absurd and immoral. here is why read the bible… mhhhh try the book of deuteronomy. with all the murder, rape, stonning, ethnic cleansing etc..
      ohh and you may say but their is the new covenant with jesus be aware of his teaching one piece being the sermon on the mount which unfortunately is tainted by the silence over slavery, and the failure to condemn the atrocities in the old testerment but instead a tasit aproval when he says he comes to fulfill them ohh their is the denouncing of relatives and condemning to hell for all that he judges..

      in light of all that is wrong and immoral contained in the bible; to choose to belive for fear of reprisal is a cowardly act. akin to pascals wager!
      please look up pascals wager and whats inherrently wrong with it!!

      Like

  48. Jkunda
    November 24, 2015

    I wonder where this fits in the mind of the “theists”

    Like

  49. Genys
    November 25, 2015

    Religion has been the cause of war’s and death to millions of innocent people over the years, I fail to associate God with such people or actions which deprive the very innocent the very chance to this so wonderful gift of life. Science will always stand against the test of time and that is what i choose to believe in, open minded people have led to this advancements we enjoy so far, of which if it were all left for the religion, we would still be in caves. I respect all religions but choose to believe in science knowing that, what cant be explained today, will have an explanation in the future, just like the way it was proven by science that the earth was round.

    Like

  50. theMentivist
    November 25, 2015

    I just want to clarify some terminology at this point, reiterated from an interesting interview with Ricky Gervais (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ricky-gervais-highlights-worst-misconceptions-about-atheism-a6743491.html). An “Atheist” is someone who “does not believe in the CLAIM that there IS a God(s)”. And “Agnostic” is someone who “does not know whether there IS or is NOT a God(s)”. These are two very distinct statements. In actuality, EVERYONE is agnostic in the sense that we can not know or prove (scientifically speaking) for sure that there exists a God(s). Some people choose to BELIEVE there is a God without any evidence anyway (theists). Others choose not to (atheists). But even atheists cannot prove there is NO God. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. That aside, it is quite disconcerting that the angle of approach for AIK is one based on name calling and shaming of other people’s faiths (calling people primitive is not a solution to the “Existence of God or lack thereof” debate). I was hoping that AIK would encourage open dialogue between people of faith and those without. There seems to be a very spiteful, subjective narrative in the description at the beginning of this website. Let’s not turn atheism into a religion, it would defeat the purpose. ~ a humble agnostic.

    Like

    • MK
      November 29, 2015

      asking an aethist to prove their is no God is the equivalent of me asking you to prove their is no santa claus. logical fallacy is asking for proof of the non existence of a fictional character

      Like

  51. LUYUNDI ANYANDA
    December 11, 2015

    Basic Tenet of Religion is FAITH….. The lack of renders one impotent in understanding of it

    Like

    • MK
      December 13, 2015

      please look up the defination of faith. i am required to suspend all logic and reason? well thats the only way to believe absurdities!!!
      to paraphrase voltaire when people believe absurdities they are willing to commit atrocities! and to illustrate the point look at the rwandan genocide. please read up on that….. religion makes men do inhuman things!

      Like

      • J Neb
        December 23, 2015

        I have a good knowledge of religious backgrounds. I am now a Christian by association rather than conviction. I go to church to keep in touch with people, purely for socialization, it’s the easiest way to have true relationship with people in my neighborhood. However, conscience is to human, guilt wears me down. That I am not a believer, like everyone call everyone. To be honest I need reasons to believe in God of the Bible and the ones available just aren’t convincing to me.

        I almost went to the church minister and asked for permission to be a member, be known for disbelief and respected, and to be given time for personal revelation. But guess what, the minister will tell me to get born again or risk rotting in hell. She’ll open the Bible and call me a fool for saying God does not exist, then how God loves me that Jesus came bla bla. Then the church will constitute a special task for serious prayer, fasting and exorcising. Then I’ll be forced to acknowledge the effort and say I believe and start a serious personal alienation. Or rather, the minister might just call me a devil worshiper and ban me from the church compound. When labeled a devil worshiper, Christian will themselves plan your suffering in the name of spiritual security in Gods name. If you doubt this look at the arrogance with which any Christian treats a non believer with.

        I am not an atheist, I’d better respond to agnostic. By the way, Jesus himself to me with the extra biblical understand of him, he was agnostic to some extent and had a transformative mission, that was cut short by his crucification, did he resurrect? No. But the Romans, lead by st paul changed his mission crowned him God and started Christianity. The Jews, founders of biblical stories, don’t consider him God, quite absurd that Christian do. This is not in the bible so Christian are in darkness on this and much more.

        The other thing that holds me in Christianity is the moral code inculcated in people from childhood. To me Christianity, as well other moral shaping religion should not be abolished. It is ‘fanatism that should be discouraged. Religion should be maintained as a moral mold for children and later as a social bond for grownups . This requires a lot of understanding. The society must be taught to love knowledge and uphold socialism. Most of what we call evil, or work of the devil, is rooted at individualism and am willing to show why.

        Like

      • MK
        December 23, 2015

        J Neb the main issue is not the community members of which ever faith or doctrine ( be they christians hindus muslims or sikh) no we are all human and are social animals and wish that association and bonding! but like you alluded to and i must acknowledge these groupings have done good social works and acts of charit and for the most part have a positive impact. but unfortunately the problem lies with the doctrine and actions of those that lead those organisations. it must be acknowledged for example the catholic church has built schools educated and sheltered orphans; but that is tainted not just by priests molesting the juveniles under their care but the vatican invoking canon law to not only hinder investigations but to add insult to injury reinstating priests who were implicated and dismissed! or on the one hand so benovelently building hospitals and on the other hand their ban on comdom use in africa a continent ravaged by HIV/AIDS!
        or the ban on contraception which robs women of control of their reproductive health! having more children than they can cloth feed and educate! which when looked at critically is the way to empower africa is to empower the women who are the backbone of our society.
        but like you pointed out you are a christian by association and i am in no way implying your catholic no; that just served as an example.. but to belong to a group, who if they knew what you ascribe to would promptly ostracize you needs to be called out as a need for conformity, akin to being in a gang! and yes those groupings and criminal gangs have way too many similarities..
        a bunch of rules
        central kingpin who runs the show
        lieutenants who carry out the bosses orders
        special rituals and rites
        a specific dress code
        special meeting locations
        paying tirbute/ passing a cut of what you earn to the boss
        that is the truth, it maynot be rational but it is the truth.

        you may just as well join a golfclub/ darts club or the rotary club or the lions club if human/ social interaction is what you seek!!

        Like

  52. J Neb
    December 17, 2015

    For me God, as Christianity has taught me from my childhood, in character is just, unbiased, compassionate, peaceful etc. In knowledge, he is complete, infinite and timeless. He is omnipresent and invisible the story goes.
    I expected to find these in the Bible now that is that bases of this teaching. I saw a lot of weakness.
    Right from the creation accounts,
    we see a God who didn’t know in advance that Adam would need a woman.
    Even having created the two idiots (not knowing right and wrong) he gave them instruction and expected they would follow and proceed to punish them when the failed, how uncanny. It’s embarrassing He could not predict this.
    Ooh, so they were deceived by the devil? that’s another failure by God, I think (sorry for thinking with God given mind). He haf cast the devil from heaven to earth. He had power to create a dungeon for the devil to wait for judgement, rather he cast them to the same Garden of Aden he had poor innocent man & woman and he could not foresee the deceit.
    Go on with the stories.
    If religion fails in logic, you can chose to stop thinking and follow it or be in serious chaos of leaving without it, a false Dilemma. I am not an atheist but the Bible fails me spiritually.

    Like

    • MK
      December 22, 2015

      it is good you have looked into abrahamic religions especially christianity; and i must commend you on the open mindedness and not just accepting its premise blindly! many of us have gone through similar motions, but sorry i got to burst that last notion. your rejection of the christian cardinal teaching of the death and ressurection of christ as attonement for our original sin from adam; that, that makes you an atheist. we have been made to belive it is wrong or it is taboo but it aint just somebody stating their lack of belief. as far as and in this instance christianity. being an atheist dosent make you less human or less moral; because we still have societal norms, our conscience and the laws of the land!
      the greatest missinformation propergated by a number of theists is only religion can be the source of morality (which ironicaly is wrong and over history quite the contrary). their is a tenndency to potray atheists as moraless vagabonds for their rejection of a given faith. as christopher hitchens challenged show any action a theist can do that an atheist is incapable of…. and their are none!
      society is better off without religion, too many atrocities over the centuries commited in gods name or on his behalf. but i do commend you and please do more research into other religions, their dogma and their histories and have a broader view on this matter i promise you it will be a rewarding and eye opening experience!

      Like

  53. Amos Aganda
    December 23, 2015

    thank you very much , it is a powerful comment to those so called etheist. Let them know that God is the only creater of this earth, because without God the earth and every thing in it would never existed. May God bless you more and more.

    Like

    • MK
      December 26, 2015

      Amos i ask which god, you know their are many… as many as the countless religions that do exist and have existed.
      and i am sure you will start with the presupposition that the one you believe in exists.
      then proceed to make the assertion your holy book is the Word of God because God tells us it is… in the holy book. and that’s the proof!
      that is circular reasoning./ a circular argument.

      never mind the fact he creates something out of nothing by speaking it into existence which is in contradiction of the first law of thermodynamics(please look it up) basically you cant get something out of nothing. premise fails!!!

      Like

      • bernard
        January 5, 2016

        And what makes you think that He who created everything that exists; including you, would subject himself to the law of thermodynamics?

        Like

      • MK
        January 7, 2016

        bernard please first make a clarification who or what is this entity you claim created everything…. including me

        Like

  54. John
    December 25, 2015

    Atheists u r wrong folow de lord nd b suprised

    Like

    • MK
      December 27, 2015

      which lord?, lord Shiva?, lord Vishnu?, lord Krishna?, lord Buddha?

      Like

  55. Leonard
    December 25, 2015

    How do you get surprised by following the lord? My best and most fruitful days in this world are when and after I realised religion is the biggest SCAM ever.

    Like

  56. Isaac Makumba
    January 4, 2016

    Obviously the existence of an
    interventionsist god, a designer of
    universes who is certainly not
    interested in human affairs is
    beyond dispute. But there has to
    be something, the source of
    everything with some divine intelligence underneath it all. Otherwise its
    compelling to conclude that the
    universe has no point which is
    somewhat irrational and
    controversial, I suppose. The universe is not here to make us happy thence what the true reason of being other than the here and now?

    Like

    • MK
      January 4, 2016

      There is absolutely no reason for the universe to exist, as reason requires cognition.
      nor does there need to be a reason for its existence in order for it to exist.
      your need their to be some deeper reason for your existence because you’re terrified that this life is all you get and that you aren’t cosmically significant.
      you seek menaing/ value for your existence; its all what you make it to be..

      Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 9, 2016

        So why is there something rather than nothing MK?

        Like

      • MK
        January 11, 2016

        like i pointed out it doesn’t require a reason. it is like asking why is water wet. to ask the question why as opposed to how… why construes purpose, their is no purpose only we give it purpose / meaning

        Like

  57. J Neb
    January 5, 2016

    Isaac, the universe will continue to exist if after the three rhinos remaining finally dies without offsprings, God forbid. The universe, likewise, would continue to exist should humans as well get extinct. A human is no more important to the universe than a rhinos or a rock. Animals have varying degree of intellectual ability base on brain adaptation. We think we are made in the image of God but have we explained how much gorillas, being so alike to humans, varies from the God likeness. The moment we realise this the more we will better understand our spiritual needs that believe in a deity. Whoever made it, if it was made, made so much that believing humans are the sole purpose of it is so ridiculous!

    Like

  58. VICTOR SHIKUKU
    January 9, 2016

    That the human brain and mind is reduced to a result of random unguided mindless purposeless processes arranging and disarranging molecules is inherently contradicting the fact that such a mind should be trusted to make any decision let alone a consensus in any subject!

    Like

    • MK
      January 11, 2016

      it ain’t random ( not as your presupposition wishes to assert) it is under the direction of a set of instructions called DNA. that is how the human body works. from your brain to your pinkie toe. this is true for all flora and fauna. and before you say DNA is too complex to have spontaneously come about; it has evolved over billions of years from simple to complex. please look up abiogenesis; how molecule chains form amino acids and from amino acids to RNA the precursor and building blocks of DNA. the premise behind science is the scientific method. where a hypothesis is tested and the results are evaluated; the experiments can be repeated many times with similar / concurring results

      Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 11, 2016

        Abiogenesis is faith not empirical since, it violates the observable repeatable law of biogenesis, it violates the laws of thermodynamics, it simple needs a special environment where natural laws dont work, namely, its an atheistic version of miracles. Just the words I LOVE YOU written on beach sand requires inference to intelligence, yet the DNA that you refer to has 3.4billion letters in the right sequence with right information and you refer to chance. While kissing the frog does not chance the frog to prince, in atheistic view proposed here, you only need to kiss the frog long enough and frequently and one of thode kisses will turn the frog to prince. Time is the miracle worker!

        Like

      • MK
        January 11, 2016

        please look up definition of abiogenesis and biogenesis.. and look up definition empirical science then look up definition of faith. now how does a scientific process require blind belief? scientific process… hypothesis, experiment observation, inference. now rinse and repeat however any number of times till you are satisfied. you either prove or disprove the hypothesis.
        abiogenesis from chemical elements to more complex molecules then eventually amino acid chains …
        biogenesis from pre existing cells… where did these cells come from?
        no special environment just conditions as they were likely to have been 4.5 billion years ago..

        and please tell me which law of thermodynamics have been violated 1st, 2nd or 3rd?
        and no need for miracles because all that is put forward in abiogenesis has been tested in the lab over and over and been peer reviewed before being published their is consensus on it in the scientific community.
        as for DNA the human genome count is less than that of amoeba in the order of 200 times!
        and to make the assertion of DNA sequencing is inference to intelligent design you should be aware first the process is not perfect and contains errors. some are transposed, others reversed and others deleted, it is not perfect! neither is it a perfect process!!. second only about 8% of it is useful the rest is “junk” and i use the tern junk loosely.
        third that humans share 50% DNA with bananas, 85% with zebra fish… their are numerous examples look them up actually humans are related by DNA to all living matter! alluding to a common ancestry!
        the thing that has been proven over and over and their is over 98% consensus is evolution is a fact! i repeat a FACT! if you have evidence to the contrary you wouldn’t be debating me you would be in Stockholm receiving a Nobel science prize!

        ohhhh and no kissing frogs necessary

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 11, 2016

        A scientific theory will only require blind faith if it violates reason, natural laws of science and is mathematically untanable. As such you invoke I BELIEVE EVEN THOUGH!! In fact evolution strictly speaking doesnot even qualify as scientific hypothesis because it is not testble. You cant test a process that takes billions of years. An experiment of such a kind doesnot exist.

        Secondly, abiogenesis has NEVER been observed otherwise if you have its experimental evidence then the Nobel prize is up for grab. Life does not rise from non-living and there is no successful experiment (NOT EVEN ONE) that generate life from non-living matter-abiogenesis in the lab. On the contrary there is the observable, testable law of biogenesis, life comes from life. In short you BELIEVE BY FAITH that inorganic and organic molecules somehow started breathing.

        The proposed change from simple to complex over time violates the second law of thermodynamics. It doesnt have happen today and thus it couldnt have happened a billion years ago unless the 2nd law of thermodynamics is supspended.

        Thirdly, simply publication of a proposed hypothesis in peer review journal is not evidence of any concensus, unless one is simply naive of how scientific publications work.

        Fourth, its foolish to suggest that an amoeba is simple or that difference in X number of genes in a banana and human is evidence for common ancestry. No scientist would take you serious. Lets just change 1% of your gene sequence and you would be useless, maybe worse than banana!

        Richard darwkins writing as a biologist notes that DNA is a computer-like system, yet Bill gates looking at this system and speaking as a computer scientist notes that it is the most sophisticated, infinitely superior to any computer program invented by man. How a simple computer program can develop by chance and random arrangement of codes is for the atheists to prove.

        Even die hard biology evolution scientists dont dogmatically claim evolution in its entirety as a package is fact. It lack of academic sincererity for anyone to claim such unless you have filled those gaps in evolution which as you say, you would be in Stockhom receiving the nobel for cementing evolution from hypothesis to fact.

        Like

      • MK
        January 11, 2016

        as for observerble evolution/speciation you can look that up the information is their yes in bacteria like ecoli which can be performed and observed in the lab. their other examples of lizards, Butterflies, moths.. look it up!

        you make the leap from amino acids chains to life in the lab. please make the clear differentiation!

        i will grant one concession if you define what life is or what qualifies as life!

        so please enlighten me on abiogenesis that thus far scientists have have or have not created chains of molecules and amino acids that are the building blocks of ribosomes have they or haven’t they?

        even setting aside abiogenesis one question you haven’t answered on biogenesis
        where did the first cell/ cells come from to begin replication?

        the second law of thermodynamics only applies to closed systems. life on planet earth is not a closed system because it receives energy from the sun..

        as to the process on publishing scientific findings on the scientific method please “educate me” especially on the peer review process. or how wrong and pedestrian my view on the process is.. and with my “pedestrian” description/ view that doesn’t change the process or negate its findings your objection is mute..

        so if not of common ancestry how or why do we have 50% DNA in common with bananas? or humans are half banana? of if you join 2 bananas you get a human? see that sounds just darn straight retarded!! so is your objection!!!
        unless you can provide a credible explanation your objection is mute!

        as for Richard Dawkins who is an evolutionary biologist has shaky grounds to be quoted on genetics. he is not a geneticist. a brilliant man he is but like i has no grounds or authority save for; and like me to quote a a geneticist. neither is bill gates they at best can make ‘pedestrian” observations and no one should quote on their authority for they have none on the matter of the mechanism and operation of genetics.

        please look up the scientific definition of theory
        And the holes you claim render the theory of evolution mute and negates it please show them. prove evolution theory is wrong and you can be off to Stockholm.
        as a side note science over the past 150 years has been providing evidence to fill your so called “gaps”

        Like

  59. VICTOR SHIKUKU
    January 11, 2016

    MK: you amaze me how you say there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for the universe to exist. Seems you believe in absolute truths. Also, wishing the question away because you cant seem to find a reason for the existence of the universe is fallacious and somewhat lazy. You also say the brain is under the control of DNA, but thats just a step backward, the DNA is also product of chance and random mutations, therefore taking the reductionists view to logical conclusion, the brains and minds of all individuals are simply unguided molecules and I wonder why we should even trust what comes from your mind. This problem puzzled Darwin himself, and he wondered why what he proposed should be trusted in the first place, if ever a monkeys brain could be trusted. And you have to come to terms with this problem because you have committed yourself to reductionism. Wishing questions away dont strengthen your worldview, not the least.

    Like

    • sam
      January 26, 2016

      one of the best things about science is that its falsifiable .. it is willing to change when new evidence is put into play. but religion isnt . your God cant be questioned all He she It says is true .. i find this rather disturbing . for so long its been proven that genesis is wrong in all accounts . a simple telescope can disprove ua God. no firmament no water above the earth no foundations to root the earth. we now know that the universe is not as finely tuned as we thought. we know God isnt responsible for earthquakes . that no flood occured . that the sun sets because the earth rotates not God making it.

      i find it funny when people try to bend science to fit into their religions with all their fancy terms like abiogenesis n thermodynamics and yet have no clue what it entails in its entirety . no wonder science wins all the tyms . the new breed of christian apologists like sye ten eric hovind etc with their pressupositional arguements are just making clowns of themselves by thinking that they have an iron clad arguement for God but when asked about wat it actually says in the bible they say they dont discuss scripture with non believers . yet peter tells em they should be ready to defend their faith .

      look at the situation around us . we were colonized brainwashed with ths white God and we adopted it fully without question . we took parts of the bible that we thot were good left out the others n said that they dont apply. shock on us . a verse from jesus lips rarely gets taught.. ” now bring those of you who refused me to be king over them and slay them before me.” say i have taken it out of context and he wasnt reffering to actual killing or it was in relation to a parable.

      the mental gymnastics of religion are just amazing and thats y i can comfortably say . yahweh just like zeus poseidon ngai nyasaye etc was a god created by people who were trying better to understand the world around em. we have known way better since them and why we hold on to iron age beliefs just amazes me .

      Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 26, 2016

        Sam, your thoughts at least as you have portrayed them on your last posting don’t require a response (at least from me as a person), with all due respect of course, not to trivialize you in any way (I find them more of street talk than pen on paper comments). but just for the record, religion is falsifiable. Thats why you cant belong to all at the same time or imagine all are the same unless you are a pluralist, post mordern, new ager and like brands. Religion is falsifiable. But if you have a question that you need clarity be free to ask, as you have noted Peter implores us to do, and with meekness I will respond with an answer or no answer if I dont know.

        Like

  60. MK
    January 11, 2016

    what troubles you about MY finding ABSOLUTELY no reason for the universe to exist. if you have an alternative and PLAUSIBLE / PROBABLE one please offer it up!!
    otherwise we will wind up in a pointless philosophical cul-de-sac.

    ps on a side note that shouldn’t lead you to the presumption of my belief in absolute truths on all matters because that is what you infer.

    like i have pointed out in earlier posts(on this page) why trust a single word i say you can look up the information yourself.

    and yes DNA is the product mutation and evolution.
    arguing with me wont change the scientific facts!
    and the scientific method.
    and yes science has come a long way since the days of Darwin. and oddly enough all what science has discovered confirmed Darwin’s theory.
    furthermore merely contemplating it doesn’t disprove it.

    the problem you have is wrapping your mind around the fact that one spices of evolved ape on a small rock in the vastness of the universe is insignificant and he like his predecessors will come and go.

    at the molecular level we are just a bunch of electro-chemical reactions. they fail and we go back to the constituent elements our bodies are made of. that is fact.

    Like

  61. VICTOR SHIKUKU
    January 11, 2016

    The question of purpose in an objective sense is significant if at least the DNA itself has iformation intended for a purpose. However, the question of why we exist is not a scientific question and here science is helpless.

    If the universe (matter, space, energy, time) has a beginning, and it does, then it has a cause and therefore the purpose of the universe is found in determining the characteristics of the cause. The cause must be greater than the effect, the cause must be outside space and time, thus omnipresent and eternal. It must have a will, to decide to cause a finite universe and not an eternal one, thus the cause of the universe is a transcendent person. A person is not measured by science, a person reveals himself. Ofcourse I can examine you with the most sophisticated instruments, but unless you speak and reveal yourself, I can not know you because you are a person.

    The purpose of the simplest computer program lies in the causative agent of the computer-the engineer. The purpose of us being here is in knowing the will of Him who made us. Such a transcendent timeless person, greater than the universe itself, is what philosophically is called God. And as a person He has not remained in silece, but has also revealed himself.

    Like

    • MK
      January 11, 2016

      you have gone a round about way to make the assertion that the universe has a creator that exists outside space and time… what is this that exists outside space time?
      well science can not prove or disprove it!.
      neither can you prove it or i disprove it!
      the position of an atheist (me) is their is no proof a god/ god(s) does or doesn’t exist and hold that the notion of a god/ gods exist only if it can be demonstrated to exist an none thus far have been demonstrated to exist. ( but that is purely a philosophical reasoning)

      now the assertion complexity is indicative of design and thus the need for designer can be summed up in the watch makers argument. please read up on it…..
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-a-schwartz/intelligent-design-watchmaker_b_1730878.html

      Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 11, 2016

        Then properly speaking you are not atheist but agnostic. Further you have not refuted that the cause of time must be timeless or the cause of matter must be immaterial. Also, something cannot pop into existence out of nothing, unless you state here that this metaphysical absurdity (that is worse than magic) is what you propose as plausible origin of universe.

        Secondly, apart from our human experience, there is a scientific method for determining a threshold for designed things and so when you say for example a website is designed its not speculation or simply because it looks designed but the claim itself meets a threshold for design! So the teleological argument still holds.

        Again, the properties of the cause of the universe are self evident from the effect caused. The question rather should be, if the effects point to an immaterial, timeless person as a causative agent called God, how do we know who this person is? Has the person revealed himself enough for us to know with certainty of his existence. And the answer is absolutely yes.

        If this person is outside time (because he caused time), then the person can see the future before it happens. The reason you and me cannot tell what will happen next week, or even tomorrow is because we are living inside time.

        Remember the FORMER THINGS of old: for I am GOD, and there is NONE ELSE; I am God, and there is NONE LIKE ME, Declaring the END FROM THE BEGINNING, and from ancient times the things that are NOT YET DONE, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: (Isaiah 46:8-9)

        Now, we have a case here. Either the statement above is true or false and no in between! It can be tested by looking at the former things (history). Thats why this goes beyong just natural science.

        If there are declarations that the God of the bible made, long before those things happened (even centuries), and then secular history affirms that they happened as described even with terrible exactness, then we can know that the personal agent outside time that caused the universe is the God of the bible and we can therefore derive the purpose of our existence.

        If He fails the test, then objectively speaking, we should look elsewhere for the answer!

        Whether you are familiar with this kind of studies I dont know but I would be interested to know. For as you say, we follow where the evidence leads, irrespective of preconceived ideas.

        Like

      • MK
        January 11, 2016

        agnostic refers to one without knowledge (of god).

        atheist refers to one who does not believe in god/gods.
        and god by your definition and reference to the one in the bible; he does not exist! HE DOESN’T EXIST!
        he is a creation of man from plagiarisation of earlier religions and myths! please read up on ancient history and the similarities in the christian god from religions that predate Christianity!
        That therefore rendering assertions from the bible on his existence mute!

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 11, 2016

        You are self contradicting. You claim God does not exist yet again claim God can not be proved or disproved! You said, quote “the position of an atheist (me) is their is no proof a god/ god(s) does or doesn’t exist“

        Your claim on the God of the bible is far from reality otherwise the history, religious and theology departments still existing even in world class universities would have been long shut down. We need to take the pain to study unless we fear to let go some cherished concepts. Truth suffers nothing by investigation and age does not change error to truth.

        I can simply say from your last comments, at least from an academic point of view, and objectively too, its a poor argument. Who would object that Judaism for example pre-existed Christianity, and there are similarities and differences. Similarities and differences are not proof for or against either positions! And if you see this as muting the bible then large number of leading religious scientists, theologians, philosophers, historians should tell you otherwise. Even secular historians of the extreme critics wing concede to the resurrection of Christ from the dead (for example). They concede based on evidence not because of the implication of conceding.

        The idea of the bible being a plagiarized myth book is not only a very loose statement in the highest sense but also falls far below an academic statement. I think the atheism you represent should rise above this argument.

        Like

      • MK
        January 11, 2016

        further the argument that their is something outside space time is not subject to the scientific process. and by the same reasoning cannot have influence over that that is subject to the scientific process. violates laws of physics! and if it does you claim special pleading and say magic/ miracle. and your god is the one who poofs something out of nothing by speaking things into existence violation of the first law of thermodynamics. you can not have it both ways he being not subject to the laws of physics yet meddling in the physical world!

        Like

      • MK
        January 11, 2016

        please dont miss represent me and below the statement you quote i wrote it is purely a philosophical indulgence. from your absurd claim that could exist anything outside space time.

        as for the many departments at prestigious universities in support of this myth, that is an argument to popularity. well you do know that for a long time popular belief held the world was flat too; the church being the main proponent of this.

        as for the resurrection of jesus christ first i see no need for a human sacrifice.
        now when jesus was resurrected the curtain in the temple was rent in half and the dead saints arose from the graves and walked in Jerusalem… its in mathew now among widely secular quoted historians( josephus and tacitus) at the time who are quoted to corroborate the existence of jesus his crucifixion and resurrection how could both have missed to mention the dead saints walking in Jerusalem?
        or were dead men walking a common occurrence?

        as for similarities please look up Mithra who predates jesus and commonalities between the two

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 12, 2016

        It is both scientifically and philosophically coherent that a cause does not reside inside the effect! The burden of proof is on your side to show that the cause of space and time actually resides within space and time, without circular reasoning or contradiction!

        I stand on the platform that the cause is outside and you claim this is absurd. Show the contrary, that the cause is inside, I will be glad to hear how that sounds.

        I am not appealing to popularity, instead am saying there is a reason why these departments still exist. Because there is real scholarship worth doing. You dont have to believe in Jesus, you only need to accept that he is a historical person who walked this planet and his death and resurrection are historical. What His death means is another thing, but that he died is fact. Unless you also, like I alluded earlier, believes in science only and dont take history seriously or reads history selectively.

        Even the vocal Richard dawkins admits Jesus´existence. Its simply a historical fact. An to attempt to reject it here is inexcusble to say the least.

        Like

      • MK
        January 12, 2016

        as for space time you have made the presupposition that their exists an entity outside space time controlling things. you made the error in assumption and now wish to force down upon me that i made the claim that the cause of space time is within space time. i have made no such assertion and yet to comment on that!
        the only thing i have alluded to is the big bang and even that is just in commentary

        the contention is not weather a man named jesus existed in Jerusalem, that is not the issue the issue is all the things attributed to him. their must have been many man named jesus it was a fairly common name for the region. the same goes for otieno who lived by lake Victoria 100 years ago and he was an amazing fisherman who did blah blah blah magic tricks and miracles… of course their is a historical otieno but whats in doubt are the feats attributed to him!

        Like

  62. VICTOR SHIKUKU
    January 11, 2016

    It seems you cearly dont understand the implication 1st law of thermodynamics! Matter and energy are not self existent or self-creating, and since their existence (whether by special creation or big bang) they cant be destroyed or added. This is the 1st law of thermodynamics. Creation affirms the first law of thermodynamics!

    No physicist ever argues that creationists violates the 1st law of thermodynamics. I have heard this with you, and it points you dont understand the implications thermodynamics to some degree and its understandable. However, the unfortunate part is your misunderstanding is shaping your conclusions!

    The fact that something is outside science process is not irrational, because science IS NOT ALL THAT THERE IS, or only source of knowledge! There is music, art, history, philosophy, theology, business, psychology, sociology and so on. Unless if all you need is science and all other faculties and sources of knowledge are useless.

    Secondly, you havent shown that the cause of time is within time; which is self contradiction! If the universe began at a finite time ago, whether 14billion or 600years, the cause thereof is timeless!! And the fact that its outside time makes it outside reach of natural science.

    At least, God exists to cause something to come to existence; And in magic, at least the magician exists too to cause the said magic; how about the something coming out of nothing caused by nothing? This is rational?

    Like

    • MK
      January 12, 2016

      first you speak of the big bang and so called “special creation” as if they are the same thing or a substitute for each other.
      first law of thermodynamics energy can not be created nor destroyed only change from one form to another how does this apply to speaking things into existence that sounds plausible/ probable creating matter out of nothing? or you you will proceed to argue it is not meant literally?

      you make the assertion that their is an unseen hand outside space time yet offer up no evidence.. no evidence to back up the claim; the claim can be dismissed without need to disprove it..

      as for the beginning of time being the big bang you will doubtless say then what was before that? well the beauty about science and scientists are honest enough to admit they don’t know and are still working on that! they dont offer up magic as an explanation is that rational?. look up definition of magic

      Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 12, 2016

        Special creation and big bang are not synonyms and nobody applies them as such. I still claim you dont understand the implications of the firt law of thermodynamics though you can state it. This law does not mean in any way that energy is eternal or self-existent, on the contrary this law affirms that energy since it came into existence it cannot be created nor destroyed. Its magnitude is the same through time in all forms.

        It seems you think by stating “energy cannot be created” it means energy is self-existent not requiring a cause! The exact opposite is meant. Any knowledgeable scientist on the subject will agree. What big bang does is try to account for the cause of this energy to come to existence!

        Creation is literal, bringing into existence. And its much plausible than energy poping into existence from nothing caused by nothing!

        Again because you cannot see where the evidence is leading you further fall in the ditch of thinking “absence of evidence is evidence for absence”!

        Sincerity does not just include stating that there are things we don’t know but willing to go where evidence and reason leads! Even creationist scientists admit there are many things they don’t know. And they don’t use God to fill knowledge gaps either! Isaac Newton for example did not say “Now I know gravity I don’t need God” instead He acknowledged God the more (for the known and unknown), yet many things were still unknown to him as they are to us.

        In short, if your concept of God is a god who explains the things you cant explain (god of the gaps), then it is obvious that the more you can explain them the less you need that god.

        Of course I have claimed that cause of the universe is a personal agent, outside space and time and immaterial based on the nature of the effects. You have not shown this is incoherent, irrational and unscientific. What you need to show is that these effects don’t need such causes and on the contrary the cause of time and space is actually inside time and space! I would like to hear about.

        Like

      • MK
        January 12, 2016

        please read up on the big bang theory.
        in short space energy time matter originate from a singularity.
        what caused the singularity? science and scientists still don’t have that one figured out yet!
        and yes their are competing hypothesis on the origins of the universe..
        as for your quip on the absence of evidence…… the default position is a null set unless shown otherwise.

        to cut a long story short
        you make the claim a supernatural entity exists; you who makes the claim must furnish the proof otherwise the claim is dismissed without need to disprove it.

        even from a logical perspective;
        as is with a court when the prosecution makes an assertion (charge) it is up to them to provide evidence to support that (charge) otherwise the charge is dismissed.

        Like

  63. J Neb
    January 12, 2016

    MK please allow me to respond to Shikuku and in point form now that he knows a little science;
    √ “The law does not claim” means your claim is right? isn’t that a fallacy?
    √ Big bang is a scientific theory and it has observable evidence (read keenly).
    √ Big band is not a creator but rather a point in the ever dynamic universe(s).
    √ Energy was not created, as you erroneously claim, at the duration of bing bang but rather transformed from former forms in to the forms that lead to what is present (call it dynamic).
    √ It’s has been proven through scientific methods that energy remain the same in magnitude but only changes in forms.
    √ In scientific terms we can talk of a time span “infinity” which is usable mathematically.
    √ “Eternal” is a term span used by heaven/hell ‘gowers’.
    √ If energy needed a creater, the creater must have used energy and energy must have been used to bring the creater in to existence (your argument extended)
    √ “in the beginning there was light…(a form of energy)’ what says you on that?
    √ what is the concept of God if he inspired Bible/Quran, but in it, only complained and threatened people into obedience in a manner to suggest a psychological disorder.
    √ Why couldn’t he create a bomb for the Israelites to give them superiority over, Babylonians, Egyptians, filistians (is that the spelling?) etc and give them, his chosen people, power over enemies noting that he is ever knowing?

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 12, 2016

      Whether termed as singularity or a quantum vacuum energy the point is this energy is not eternal, and eternal is an english word not a religious term!! Infact for centuries scientists belived the universe to be eternal and not finite. Now that they agree it had a finite beginning (as the religious wing had long held), the word eternal now has become religious, absurd!

      Secondly MK am waiting for you to show me how the cause of space and time is itself within space and time; because you refute that causes are outside their effects! Demonstrate this scientifically or by philosophy how intelligent and coherent it is to look for the cause inside the effect! Am eargerly waiting, for my assertion on this point you claimed is absurd to the least.

      Third, I already admitted that a transcendent being outside space and time is by definition outside the realm of science for science is not all that there is or only path to knowledge! At least all levels of schools you attended (I suppose) had more than one department, to mean science is profitable, but is not the only knowldge there is. Therefore, to insist on a scientific demonstration of something outside space and time is to require out of science what science cannot do! Just like requiring a scientific demonstration of a multiverse. For the fact that the multiverses (if ever such things exist) would be outside our universe´s space-time its not measurable by science. It would require other fields of knowledge to know if it exists or just imagine it exists.

      Fourth, the big bang is far, as east is from west, from being an intelligable acceptable scientific explanation for origins. Its simply a tentative hypothesis because there is no other naturalistic explanation superior to it and the alternative to creation. To suppose that its acceptable in scientific community is to be ignorant of facts or simply willfully playing the deceiver to those who have little knowledge on the subject.

      Infinity is just an abstract mathematical concept. Any mathematician would agree. Infinity multiply by infinity is infinity, and infinity subract infinity is infinity still. So making an argument on the word infinity is futile.

      No one questions the magnitude of energy is constant and only changes form. This is the 1st law of thermodynamics! whether you are a big banger or agnostic or creationist.

      In the begiining the was no light (energy) !!! and God said, let there be light (Genesis 1:2). Cause and effect and ofcourse dont fail to notice the cause is not inside the effect!

      Am not a muslim, for good reasons. But because you ask about the God of the bible, I would be glad to show you that He not only exists, but as a person has revealed Himself. He is love too. Ofcourse I assume if you are married your wife did not marry you because you looked like a good macromolecule but because you revelaed your personality to her and she willfully entered a loving relationship with you, forgetting all other men, scientific? And you will be angry if not disappointed after all you have done for her to find her following other men too! scientific, right? God, revealing himself as the creator, center of all goodness and law giver wishes that we love him by choice. But, alas, just like some men and women cheat, we also likewise disappoint Him. Thats why its not far fetched that He should come down to dwell with man, to reveal himself. This is far than what science can fathom.

      God does not need a bomb, man does! And even man, sometime even with the power to make boms, dont use them either. I wish you will be interested in the big picture of the great controversy on the character of God, and then the isolated bible account will make sense and if you cannot undertand them as well, it is no crime, there is alot that great minds admit they dont know. Its great character to admit one does not understand than err out of misunderstanding.

      Like

      • MK
        January 12, 2016

        my non comment on the space time thing seems to be bugging you a lot….

        this is why i am not commenting on it, it is because it is a STRAW-MAN argument.
        and this is why it qualifies to be labeled as such and doesn’t warrant my response; YOU! and not I make the presupposition that claim the cause of space time is within space time i said no such thing therefore i need not defend a claim i did not make period!!

        as i had pointed out earlier on because science doesn’t yet have an answer is no grounds to assert god did it..

        As for the existence of an entity outside space time i have already offered my philosophical musings on the matter.
        philosophically can neither be proven or dis proven. and a probable or improbable god/gods of philosophy should remain in philosophy.
        if he does meddle in the physical world he must be proven in the physical world!

        as for my personal life i need not comment on it in a public forum, i see no need..

        as for the accusation my one sided crutch we can dabble in a bit of ancient history.

        as for the god of the bible; and let their be light thing please look up amon Egyptian sun god bringer of light and Ra the creator breather of life.. united into one monotheistic god amonra by Akhenaten around 1300bc. bible first books written around 600 bc… i wonder where they got the idea?? hummm Egypt and the middle east aint like a a gazillion Jillion miles apart and ideas/ stories/ religions/ philosophies do travel with merchants…

        read up on it

        and please take your own advice look at the bigger picture

        Like

      • J Neb
        January 13, 2016

        “Infact for centuries scientists believed the universe to be eternal and not finite” when talking about science avoid words like believe because “believing” has impeded scientific progress a lot in history. It is science and logic that gets people from the point of believing to the point of knowing.

        The big bang theory, if true, does not include species in its happening. The theory of species speaks of spontaneous protein clusters that eventually, again by chance, rose the first rudimentary organism(s), long after the big bang. Billions of years of changes at different exposure on those organisms (all living things) resulted to what is today: you, the mosquito, the flower and the bacteria you just breathed. There is a recent scientific discovery that you and an Ape have 98% similarity in your genetic makeup hence the similarity observable to you (how mush is an ape an image of God? 98%?)

        “Infinity is just an abstract math concept”. You look at mathematic with contempt yet the universe within our reach has obeyed laws from which mathematics concepts are derived.

        From the bible, God created day and night and He rested on the seventh day meaning he did not separate himself time-wise from what he created. In the beginning (beginning of what? lies) the earth was formless. Formless means absent? or disorganized in the space?

        ‘one day God was walking in the Garden of Aden, Gen 3:18’. This shows that God of the bible is within space. Jesus ascended to heaven pointing a heaven overhead Israel. ‘God opened the gates of heaven’ and it rained the Noah’s flood. What more do you want to know that He is within time and space.

        If space and time need creating, then your claim of God is true (Joke).?

        Outside space and time is not a place you can hide God because even you don’t know what that is.

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 13, 2016

        J Neb you are literally confused or simply you dont understand what am saying!

        Believing is an english term found even in scientifc journals today (unless you dont read) and not a religious word. If you think the word believing impedes science then I guess you are doing a different science unknown to everybody else.

        Secondly, when I say infinity is an abstract mathematical concept am making a scientific statement. Its absurd that you imagine the word absract to mean contempt. Seriously???!!!!

        Third, you amaze me that 98% similarity in genetic makeup is evidence for common descent. The fact that you are far much complex than an ape and you can study the ape while the ape cant study you should tell you that you and an ape are not in the same image. Its like saying a chemistry textbook and a homescience textbook have common source because they have the same alphabets. Goodness!!! The same alphabets make both textbooks, yet the information are two worlds apart.

        No one claims the big bag has species in it. It must come by chance. The point is, my worldview is perfectly consistent with science and philosophy to expect the cause of the universe to be outside the universe itself. This MK termed as absurd but his scientist counterparts find it logical to conceive the existence of a multiverse.

        Am amazed you ask in the beginning of what!!! Beginning is an expression for time. If I ask you between time and space which existed first and why?

        Genesis 1:1 perfectly answers the question of time, space, matter and energy in their proper chronology. I think you need scientific eye glasses too when reading the bible, then some questions wont escape your lips.

        Why would God not walk into the garden He has created? Because the garden is inside space that He has made? Seriously!!!!

        You affirm that I dont know by scientific method what is outside space time but claim that something exists there-intlligence, and I concede yes, its true. Now, can you use this same rule on the multiverse hypothesis?

        It seems you are either goal shiting or you are unfamiliar with what you believe and likewise ignorant of what you are refuting. Because of this limitation, you cannot self-critic your own assumptions.

        Like

  64. MK
    January 13, 2016

    Bwana Victor shikuku the science and understanding it seems to be fraught with personal interpretations…… i am not saying we suspend all debate on the science no;
    just as you had suggested we could approach the issue of the god of the bible from a historical perspective. and examine stories and major events cited in the bible then look at religions that predate the bible some by 1000 years.
    and the explain how religions and myths that predate both the bible and torah contain these stories myths and ideas the questions is who copied who?
    and most major event described in the bible can be traced back to older religions.
    the idea of
    god of light
    god the creator of man
    the fall of man and a talking snake( really a talking snake?)
    the flood of noah
    the ten commandments
    the list is long but lets just start with those.

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 13, 2016

      MK I think I have presented a careful sequence of thought that is consistent with either science or philosophy that the cause of the universe is outside the universe itself (this you called absurd) and that from the properties of the effect, the cause must be outside space, timeless, immaterial and personal intelligence.

      You challenge these premises, yet you havent shown that they are indeed flawed, contradicts science and philosophically absurd. Even further, you have not given a case whatsoever to show that:

      1. The cause of space and time exists inside space and time

      2. Conceptualizing existence of something outside our space-time bound universe is absurd, irrational or delusional

      Actually, listing several items that you have reservations about such as god of light, flood of Noah, talking serpent and so forth does not strengthen your case, not the least. As though, attempting to disprove God as revealed in the bible is proving atheism. Which is not the case!

      I can attest that the interpretations and understandings I have given so far are all standard scientific and philosophical claims that are not disputed depending on one’s worldview. Not to mention that there is also liberty to offer personal interpretations too provided they are not self-contradictory or contradict standard known body of knowledge. I mean, we are not born to be reflectors of other people’s thoughts.

      Of course, as I mentioned, I would be joyous to pursue also a historical approach to corroborate the aforementioned assertions. Am dedicated to all sources of knowledge, science included…and to follow the evidence it leads without prejudice.

      Truth suffers no loss of investigation, and age does not change error to truth. God’s dealings with man in history is preserved in stone.

      And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. (Luke 19:39-40)

      Let the stones of history talk.

      Like

      • MK
        January 14, 2016

        this science thing is just going round in circles…
        you and not i make the assertion their exists an entity outside space and time..
        my reply was the default position is the null set; nothing till you can show it..
        and with science? you admit science is applied to what is within space time not outside of it.
        what is left just a philosophical may or maynot exist.
        i need not give long winded explanations
        in short you make the claim you must provide evidence..
        and having to repeat mt previous sentiment i will not respond to you straw-man arguement. i did not make it i need not defend it.. go through the whole debate and show me where i made the claim the cause of space time is within space time. i did not make such a statement please stop forcing it on me..

        and yes your words (dellusional) is rather harsh but serves to illustrate the point
        you make the claim he exists you have to furnish plausible proof.
        the leap from the abstraction of a god to the one in the bible compells us to look at the bible.
        and its history
        and history at a broader scope.

        i do not need to disprove the existence of a fictional character. in this case god/gods they dont exist! it is like asking you to disprove harry potter. he is a fictional character.
        you say a fictional character truly exists it is upon you to furnish the evidence.

        the bible has a number of plagiarisms and history shows it to be so!
        i need not disprove it any one who studies the issue ought to figure it out
        and its not a popularity contest they are not competing philosophies …

        read the history..

        Like

  65. david
    January 13, 2016

    more than 3k yrs ago man had to look for answers to things around them to achieve this they had to create a un questionable entity answering all question they created the deities jews God. greeks zeus and his family who created ‘man’ and the world and all living things that was more than 3k yrs ago
    today wen science has explained all this pple instead of pple having patience to wait for more answers they stick to ancient thinking in tha name of religion u need to raise above this self imposed thinking and see wat u arent allowed to see tha the Institution of a supreme being is a making of man not true existence

    Like

  66. J Neb
    January 14, 2016

    There is change of subject but I respond to an earlier string

    Shikuku,
    “..you are literally confused or you simply don’t understand what I am saying!”. This statement shows that you got emotionally charged after going through my response. It is normal especially when your comfort zone, your faith, is being challenged.

    English is not in question here, it is reality (logical and provable scientifically) vs faith (believing). Also, there is nothing like ‘a scientific statement’, so be free to use rhetorics like “infinity is an abstract mathematical concept”.

    “Its absurd that you imagine the word abstract to mean contempt” Now I know am not the one ‘not understanding’ since this is entirely inconsistent with where I had used the word contempt.

    May I use your analogy to get you out of confusion. 98% similarity in genetic makeup mean much more than letters in a text book. If you had two text books that are 98% similar, consider 98% of the sentences and paragraph being the same that the text books almost look like they are identical in their content, appearance and shape. Probably “a chemistry textbook and a homescience textbook” can be use to show how a man differs from an eucalyptus. Find out more on apes before you say they cannot study us.

    Space and time are not thing that exists so thy cannot be created. If you cannot fathom that, there in no hope for you. Stay in religion.

    I am moving from a point of believing to a point of knowledge. I need to be less familiar with what I have believed (illusions). It is the claim that God of the bible is outside space and time that constitute goal shifting.

    MK, Even if he reads history with his illusory eyes he cannot see these things as they are but rather as he want them seem.

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 14, 2016

      I Neb if I respond to all of your latest comments the discussion will be trivialized. There is only one element that catches my attention and is worth commenting on. But for the sake that my silence should be misquoted, let me just state that am not emotional at all, far from it.

      About the word believing I just leave you in that cell you locked yourself into. But should you be interested to come out of it, here is one quote (there are thousands) from a scientific paper to help you see that the word is not a problem in scientific circles:

      It is believed that decreasing partial pressure of CO2 in atmosphere (pCO2) is the primary determinant for the long-term cooling trend and for the growth of continental-scale ice sheet in polar regions (Gaojun and Elderfield, Evolution of the carbon cycle over the past 100 million years, Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 103 (2013) 11–25)

      For full article the DOI index is: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.gca.2012.10.014

      Now to the main point. You (and many others do the same) presented the readers with a false dicotomy between science and faith and that they have to choose either, as though science and faith are opposites. Such a dissection is grossly flawed. It is meant to give the impression that faith is where there is no evidence and science is where evidence is. Really????

      In fact, faith is evidence based. Actually without faith science is undoable. The scientist has faith in the rational intelligebility of the universe otherwise he can not walk into the lab! I mean for example why do we take money to the bank, give it to strangers and walk away expecting to get it back after one month!! Here, you excercise faith, but that faith is based on evidence of past experiences (personal or from others).

      To suggest that scientists are people of evidence and theists are people of faith (evidenceless in this case) is mistaken and actually an insult not a complement.

      Let me give this bible text for all the readers on this platform, moreso to the Christians.

      But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and BE READY always to give AN ANSWER to every man that asketh you A REASON of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15)

      I can simply call it the reasonable faith, because it is a faith with reasons, not a blind one. And therefore science versus faith is false dicotomy, nobody has to choose between the two. Actually many nobel prize winners in natural sciences are christians and they dont have to choose between science and faith because such a choice does not exist.

      You can be commited in the reasonable faith of Christianity and be an excellent scientist, simultaneously.

      Like

  67. MK
    January 14, 2016

    victor shikuku pleaase look up the definitoin of faith.
    stop inventing one to suit your arguement.
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/faith
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 15, 2016

      MK, the definitions of faith you posted are perfectlçy fine. Cant you see that you also subscribe to the second definition when it comes to abiogenesis!

      Like

      • MK
        January 17, 2016

        please look up where i mention abiogenesis in my earlier comment. and i do make a point of listing what has been experimented and repeatedly demonstrated in the lab. from elements up to RNA.
        i never explicitly state they have created DNA no! only mention that RNA form the building blocks of DNA(simplified pedestrian)
        go check!
        least i misrepresent the facts or be misquoted as you are attempting to do!
        that is why i delve into how far the research has gotten.

        Like

      • MK
        January 17, 2016

        science conerstone on facts
        needs no faith
        please withdraw your claim science relies on faith
        ps on a side note the banking system relies on trust not faith.
        look up definition of trust.

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 17, 2016

        MK, one definition of faith is trust as you can see from the definitions you posted, trust comes with some evidence to build some confidence of course (This is the faith I profess). But now, look at the other definition in this link you posted:

        http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith

        Science has many things that scientists believe, by faith, with a hope that they will be proved factual. Abiogenesis is but one example. We cant separate faith from science then give people a choice between the two.

        Like

  68. J Neb
    January 15, 2016

    You can have knowledge on many things but have a laughable illusions on one.

    Like

  69. Kadet
    January 15, 2016

    In the name of our accestors whose legency we must bear in mind that there is , “creator” reveled to all and known by many names in avery languge of the world , how can any bod say he is not their ?

    Like

  70. bachus
    January 22, 2016

    Victor has not commented on the similarities between the stories of the bible and those of the ancient, the ten commandments came from the principles of ma’ator the negative confessions,what’s your take on that?

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 25, 2016

      Bachus, sorry for my oversight to comment on that point. I have been abit busy too lately. Now, the argument placed here on similarity between expressions in the bible and other ancient literature is based on the assumption that INSPIRATION as taught in the bible is verbatim, which is not the case. The bible writers were God´s penmen not God´s pen. The thoughts were given by God and the writer puts it in human language including literary borrowing except direct words from God in which the write puts quotation marks. Verbatim as means of inspiration is not taught in the bible and so the claim here is based on a wrong premise of what inspiration is.

      And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and SOUGHT OUT, and SET IN ORDER many proverbs. Ecclessiates12:9

      Not all the proverbs were originally coined by Solomon as you can see, yet by God´s wisdom He sought and separated the truth from the heap of error. Thats how inspiration works. The book of 2nd Peter and Jude have also similarity depicting literary borrowing. To the unlearned on inspiration this is a stumbling block, but to the bible student this is harmonious and perfectly fine.

      I hope that helps you. Blessings

      Like

      • MK
        January 27, 2016

        victor please make a clarification did they copy earlier stories? a simple yes or no..
        no fancy dancing with words in your reply please.

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 28, 2016

        MK, You read but seems you did not understand. I hope the person who asked the question understood. Assuming by copying you mean plagiarism, I answer NO.

        I carefully chose relevant words used in the literature discipline dealing with issues of “literary ethics, communication and publications”. Those words (such as fair use, plagiarism, verbatim, literary borrowing) which are rich in meaning and thought provoking you just called them fancy dancing! The spirit of criticism can be blinding my friend. Guard it with care.

        I also assume you used “stories” loosely to mean “pre-existing literature, imageries, sayings and so forth” not with an intent to prejudice the mind of the reader in the sense that we use “stories” in common conversations.

        Lastly, am personally somewhat troubled when we come to the point of “tell me yes or no”. If it helps well and good, but in this case am just optimistic because my explanation was clear.

        Blessings

        Like

      • MK
        January 28, 2016

        victor how do you know they did not plagiarize?

        Like

      • J Neb
        January 28, 2016

        As long as the basic assumptions are that God of the bible exists, the Bible is the infallible word of God and there is punishment of not believing this, such a discussion with people like Shikuku will remain futile. Either Shikuku is deliberating evading the embarrassment that the inspired-word-of-God were copied from various pre-existing pagan religions. Or, he is ignorant of these stories as far as when the bible was written and when these alleged stories existed.

        For example, The Creation of Adam and eve (bible excluding Lilith) and the fall of man (talking snake), virgin birth, miracle and resurrection of a Saviour/Jesus and The Ideas of Holy TRINITY. Stories that anyone who keenly scrutinizes them ends up laughing at Christianity.

        Shikuku, trembles with fears that, e.g, lightening will strike him as a God-of-the-bible punishment for blasphemy. He is not capable of these discussions, he came here to preach about God, unfortunately, to people who know he is a creation of ancient men. Instead of “Blessings” read confusion.

        Like

      • MK
        January 28, 2016

        J neb thanks! i was taking it slow and step by step …and you know it would be interesting to hear victors reply on how he has knowledge on what the bibles authors were thinking!
        and how he could possibly posess this knowledge over 2000 to 2600 years after the books were written and corroborate it with information outside the bible!

        and the bible is subject to a higher threashold it claims to be inspired word of god, and not just a literary work like shakespere…

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 28, 2016

        MK, you just said “and the bible is subject to a higher threashold it claims to be inspired word of god, and not just a literary work like shakespere” which means there is what you understand to be inspiration but you are not telling us what you think inspiration is. So, let me just ask you for my sake and the public, when the Bible claims to be inspired word of God (and it is), what does it mean?

        Secondly, you ask “how do you know they did not plagiarize?”. You are the accuser charging with plagiarism, the burden of proof lies with you. But because you shift the burden to me, let me give you hints on how to proof guilty as charged your plagiarism case: You have to:

        1. Define/Explain what the bible authors meant by inspiration

        2. Show that by the literary ethics, practice and laws that existed 2000 years ago, the bible writers were unethical or would be charged as guilty of plagiarism if not just an ethical/moral issue

        3. Another extreme approach would be to use the present 21st century literary ethics, practice and laws and extrapolate them 2000 years backwards and show that there is plagiarism

        4. Show that the bible writers deceived their audiences that they were inspired (as per definition you will give) yet they actually switched authorship names of some of their literary sources

        I guess the accused here is helping the accuser to strengthen the case. This never happens in court, but because we are searching for truth I dont mind helping you shape your case. Of course if you can possess the knowledge of plagiarism 2000-2600 years ago, it should not be surprising that I possess some of this knowledge too.

        But to reply to how I have this knowledge, it is because the bible itself points to all that that some of its expressions were contemporary knowledge present in the days of the writer and so both his audience were aware. This includes vocabulary, literary genre, similar rules/laws on some behavioural aspects, literary structure, similar rites (like circumcision), and literary dependency.

        The prophets knew the literature of their time and they used extra-biblical material to communicate competently. They used contemporary structures, styles, concepts, and language for the same purpose.

        Let me end by giving you another example: The Apostle Paul quoted from Epimenides, a sixth century B.C. Greek poet but he replaced the pantheistic ideas with the concept that God is the Father of Jesus

        “For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of YOUR OWN POETS HAVE SAID, ‘We are his offspring” (Acts 17:28)

        One of CRETE’S OWN PROPHETS HAVE SAID IT “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons”. (Titus 1:12)

        Here is the poetical passage from Epimenides:

        “They fashioned a tomb for Thee, O holy and high One—The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies! But Thou are not dead: Thou livest and abidest forever; for in Thee we live and move and have our being.”—Epimenides.

        Just a final word:

        The words of the bible are truth not because the prophets spoke them, the prophets spoke them because they are truth.

        Blessings.

        Like

  71. J Neb
    January 28, 2016

    “The words of the bible are truth not
    because the prophets spoke them, the
    prophets spoke them because they are
    truth” is this philosophy or baseless declaration?

    Shikuku has a long pointless argument in hope that you’ll get tired and leave him standing. Fake ‘blessings’.

    Stories that forms the pillars of his faith especially the mythical fall of man and the fabrication of resurrection of Jesus makes him very emotional. But these things won’t be made true by the size of his conviction.

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 28, 2016

      Am issue centered so far without emotions blurring my views or blurring my ability to understand what you are saying. Thats why Jneb’s comments about fear are misplaced, they are not an argument for or against anything.

      “The words of the bible are truth not because the prophets spoke them, the
      prophets spoke them because they are truth” is not baseless, its another way of saying what inspiration is, and unfortunately you missed the point again.

      I dont have to differ with you simply because you hold a different worldwiew, or just for the sake of differing (no one has the time) but mainly because you at times misrepresent my worldview or question it and also consistently miss the point. Maybe am not a good teacher, but the points are there to be read by all.

      Am waiting for your explanation of inspiration from which your unquenchable criticism and allegation of plagiarism is partly based.

      Like

      • MK
        January 28, 2016

        read the history..
        and as J neb had asked are you aware of the ancient mythologies that predate christianity?
        the biblle is made up of multiple books with multiple chapters. i have neither the time; patience or iclination to go through each and every one on this wall!
        i did make the claim that a number of stories in the bible have similarities to earlier myths from earlier religions.
        the history is their, you contest my asertion and not the history or do you contest the history?
        or is the history as usual open and subject to your skewed view?
        and as J neb had sited one instance of the creation and fall of man and lilith that you are yet to address!

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 28, 2016

        That there are mythologies that date before Christianity is a simple historical fact. I have affirmed this historical fact through out my presentation. That the bible writers used some of these contemporary concepts that were familiar to their audiences to construct their themes, messages and uniquely frame their work is a fact that I have also shown you and I cited a few examples. (read my comment again)

        Let me add one more: Revelation 17 describes a woman riding a seven headed scarlet beast which sits on many waters. This imagery is borrowed from pagan mythology in the days of John yet the theme, the application of the symbols and the meaning given to them is far from mythology and very real and described a reality we are facing presently. I can speculate you don’t understand Revelation 17 either.

        So, the claims you are advancing about history are true, but now comes the issue: The charge put forth based on this background is: The bible writers were not inspired (though they claimed to be) and secondly, they plagiarized.

        I am waiting for the proof of these charges:

        Finally, I think you people are tactfully shifting goal posts and distracting the readers by changing from one subject to another, and providing long lists of items (like creation, adam and the fall, trinity, virgin birth, talking snake) to give the impression that answers are not being provided.

        I have patiently handled one subject at a time, and would not mind when we come to those other items (one after the other) to give a response where I can.

        So, instead of sitting high in the seat of judgment (waiting to be convinced) and making charges, come down and take the pain of proving guilty as charged.

        Like

      • MK
        January 28, 2016

        first their is no shifting of goal posts if their is please succintly point it out..
        now please offer up the definitoin of plagiarism.
        then compare that with your last admission of them drawing from older myths.
        now the topic of plagiarism cant be discussed in a vacuum.
        it needs to be demonstrated by examples which even you have offered up some.
        and J neb has too!
        so the issue left is proof from me of the authors doing so.. i need not; why? you have acknowledged that they did..
        they were aware of these myths and by your admission they borrowed from them.
        that aside would be the ridiculous notion of knowledge of their thoughts( the authors) and unfortunately they are cant be questioned to provide clarification! and please note i did allude to that when i even offered up you provide sources outside of the bible to corroborate their writing.
        the tool we have to study the issue is history..

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 28, 2016

        MK, you are not up to task. How do you charge someone with plagiarism then you ask for definition of plagiarism!

        As you put it, the palgiarism charge must be demostrated with examples. You have offered none, literally none! If J Neb has, he has posted none, literally none.

        I have instead plainly presented what thebible claims to be. If you cant prove a case against someone, don’t make accusations. Even in a court of law, your case here would be thrown out for lack of evidence.

        You can take this to the bank: You can make many criticisms about the bible, but on plagirism, even given 20years of investigation you will end no where. Maybe you try another attack.

        Advice: study about plagiarism and literary ethics and copyright laws down through history, then maybe you will see that your charge is baseless.

        Like

      • MK
        January 28, 2016

        and yes before you accuse me of dodging the question of inspiration..
        inspiration alludes to the existence of a supernatural being.
        this brings us back full circle to if a supernatural being exists!
        and we have already been down that path..
        philosophically; their are three options; one exists or one dosent exist or one does both simultaniously exist and dosent exist!
        scientificaly; exists outside of space and time theirfore out of the realm of the scientific method. and the default is the nul set, nothing till demonstrated!
        we are back at the begining…
        i rest my case and see no need for further debate!

        Like

      • MK
        January 28, 2016

        please dont misrepresent me i did offer up way way earlier on in the debate.
        scroll to what i had written earlier and i quote

        ” as for the accusation my one sided crutch we can dabble in a bit of ancient history.

        as for the god of the bible; and let their be light thing please look up amon Egyptian sun god bringer of light and Ra the creator breather of life.. united into one monotheistic god amonra by Akhenaten around 1300bc. bible first books written around 600 bc… i wonder where they got the idea?? hummm Egypt and the middle east aint like a a gazillion Jillion miles apart and ideas/ stories/ religions/ philosophies do travel with merchants…”

        to which you gave no reply!

        Like

      • VICTOR SHIKUKU
        January 29, 2016

        On tht not, that no further debate for known reasons I conclude by saying:

        Varied concepts of deities have existed even in africa, and before Moses wrote too. That is a historical fact that need not to be defended (And it poses no problem to the bible believer for all these are chronicled). But if you want to build on that fact a case concerning the bible then you are called to defense and not just “throw” charges and allegations.

        Religions, philosophies even scientific theories do travel. That is fact, and it is good news indeed. Otherwise if ideas were localized I guess you know where we would be today! We wouldn’t even have this virtual platform, we would wait to meet eye to eye.

        Of course I never wish to misrepresent anyone’s ideas. Thats my Christian duty. I hope from my series of posting someone learnt something, to strengthen him/her as a believer,and provoke the seeker of truth forward for further investigation.

        As for those who hold a null set, I personally dont believe its an intelligent satisfying position.

        As for the dependence on scientific method for knowing the truth about all that exists, I will say such a position is doomed to fail, for there is more that exist that science cant detect. Example is I dont know what the reader of this text is thinking about, and there is no scientific method to test the thoughts of individuals, but I certainly know that the thoughts exist.

        As for the bible believing Christians in the forum I pray that you become diligent bible students not tossed to and fro. It is a reasonable faith. Many bible believing people are literally ignorant of the bible and probably some skeptics here who were once believers have learnt something in the bible that they were ignorant about while they were still believers. I reason to reconsider the reasons for unbelief. Its better to be confused that to be willfully ignorant.

        As I pen down, thanks for your time and engagement in discussion. And since some hold a null set, not knowing whether God exists or not until proven, I would leave you with the words of Paul, may blessings from the unknown God be with you!

        For further contact: odhiambo_shik@yahoo.com

        Thanks.

        Like

  72. J Neb
    January 29, 2016

    Parting Shot

    Man created God in his mind in his own image. As for God of the bible, the self appointed governors of ancient Israel (the Levites) created him (in their own likeness), or rather modified the existing ones. Then, they wrote the laws of Moses and continued terrorizing the Israelite with messages from God (Isaiah-Malachi) to regain/secure their high status and the tithes. Torah/old testament.

    Go in peace Shikuku

    Like

    • VICTOR SHIKUKU
      January 29, 2016

      Your parting short has just sent me in peace with laughter hehehe How do you give a hypothesis as a parting short, you should have proved the hypothesis during the several weeks of discussion. But all in all, let me laugh abit because the discussion has been intellectually rigorous with no moments of laughter.

      Thanks for wishing me peace, am peaceful. Peace exists hehehe I wish you the same peace, without a scientific method.

      We may meet eye to eye someday, but until then, be peaceful.

      Bye, am gone in peace.

      Like

  73. shamil
    February 5, 2016

    Existence is that which is, and God is that which is not. Existence is a reality, God is a fiction. Existence is available only to meditators, people of silence; God is a consolation for sick minds, sick psychologies.
    Existence is not your production – God is. That’s why there is only one existence, but thousands of gods. Each according to his needs, each according to his suffering, each according to his expectations, creates a god or accepts an old belief about God.
    God is a great consolation, but it is not a cure. Existence is not a consolation. To be in tune with it is to be healthy and whole. All the religions of the world have been teaching God; I teach you existence. I teach you to be in tune with that which surrounds you, which is within you and without you. Once you are in tune with it, there is no death for you, no misery, no tension, no worry, but a tremendous peace surrounds you, a contentment which you have never even dreamt of.
    God is for those who cannot grow in consciousness, who are retarded as far as consciousness is concerned. It is a kind of toy; retarded people need it. And the moment I say it is a toy, then it is up to you how you want to make it – looking like a monkey or looking like an elephant. It is just up to you whether to give him four hands or one thousand hands. It is your creation. Strangely enough, man believes God created everything.
    The truth is that God himself is a creation of man’s imagination.
    God is the greatest lie you can ever find, because on that lie thousands of other lies depend. Churches, religious organizations go on multiplying lies upon lies, just to protect one lie.
    You have to understand the psychology of lying. The first thing about lying is that you need a good memory because you have to remember. You lie to someone about something, to somebody else about something else; you have to remember what you have said to one and what you have said to the other.
    Truth needs no remembrance. Truth is always there, just the same. You don’t have to cram it in your memory. Memory gives you a bondage, a prison; it clings around you, covers you so much, slowly, slowly that you disappear completely. Truth is uncovering yourself from all lies. And there is a sudden revelation that you are part of the immense truth I am calling existence.
    You don’t need any churches, you don’t need any temples, you don’t need any mosques; you need only a prayerful heart, a loving heart, a grateful heart. That is your real temple. That will transform your whole life. That will help you to discover not only yourself, but the very depths of this immense existence.
    We are almost like the waves of the ocean – just on the surface, and the ocean may be miles deep. The Pacific Ocean is five miles deep. But a small wave on the top will never know the depth – her own depth, because she is not separate from the ocean. She will cling to her small entity, be afraid about death, be afraid of losing herself in the vastness, the oceanic infinity. But the truth is, the death of the wave is not a death, but the beginning of an eternal life.
    God has been invented.
    It was people’s need; people needed a protector. In the immensity of the universe, a man feels so alone, so small. The vastness creates trembling in him. What is your existence?
    Naturally primitive man was not able to adjust himself to the idea of this vastness of the universe without giving it some personality and without making himself in some way related to that personality.
    God was an effort of the primitive mind of man to give existence a personality. Then he becomes God the father. Then you can make some relationship with him. You may even be against him, but at least there is someone you can be for, you can be against; there is someone who is greater than you, who is going to protect you, who is your guarantee.
    God is simply the poverty of human consciousness.
    The people who attained to their inner denied the existence of God. Anybody who has ever become inwardly healthy, gone beyond the mind which is basically sick, has denied God. God as a fiction is good for kindergarten school children. They need it – parables, fables, stories. But very few human beings have gone beyond the kindergarten school.
    God exists because you are not aware of yourself. God exists because you have not made any contact with your own center. The moment you know yourself, there is no God and there is no need of any God. In fact I am in absolute support of Friedrich Nietzsche: “God is dead.”
    The second part of his sentence is even more significant, “God is dead and man is now free.” That second part has not received much attention from the philosophers, from the mystics, from the psychologists, but the second part is the most important; the first part is not much. In fact, the first part is basically wrong. God cannot die – fictions never die. The moment you know they are fictions there is no question of their death. Neither are they born, nor do they die. God was never born in the first place – how can he die? Death is the other extreme of birth.
    So the first part is not very important, but that has been given much importance by theologians, because they became afraid: “This is sacrilegious, to tell people that God is dead. That means that now no religion is needed.” They became afraid for their own business. But they forgot the second part which is more important. It has tremendously significant implications. It means that God was a bondage, God was a retardedness, God was out of fear. God was not a treasure, but a heavy, mountainous weight on your heart and on your growth.
    Once God is removed, man’s possibility to grow and blossom is absolutely free.
    A God is a despot, a fascist. Without God, the world becomes freedom. Existence gives a tremendous dignity to every individual. From the smallest blade of grass up to the greatest star in the universe it gives immense significance and love; it makes no difference. There is equality and equal opportunity. And there is no need unnecessarily to pray and waste your time, to read the holy scriptures, which are the most unholy books in the world. There is no need to be exploited by the priests. You are certainly and suddenly free from all these chains. Now you can be yourself.
    While God is in existence you can never be yourself. You are just a puppet, your strings are in the hands of God. The ancient saying in India is that not even a small leaf of a tree moves unless God’s order is received for it to move. Whatever you are, according to religions you are made out of mud. The word “human” comes from humus, which means mud. And the word in Hebrew, Arabic, Urdu, Hindi, is admi – it is used as the name of the first man, Adam. Admi means the earth. God made man out of the earth and then breathed life into the puppet.
    Now, what kind of freedom do you have? Somebody has breathed life into you, and it is in his hands to stop breathing life into you any moment. Whatever you are doing, the religions believe it is your fate, it is written on your forehead. And there have been many con men who have even been trying to read what is written on your forehead. Astrologers, palmists, all kinds of cunning people have been exploiting the simplicity and innocence of humanity. There are people who are reading your hand, looking at the lines, telling you what those lines mean. The whole emphasis is that you are not living a life of your own, you are just a part in a drama, and the part that you are playing has been decided beforehand. consciousness and its highest peak,

    Like

    • Dukawa
      February 6, 2016

      Religions were created or created by creative minds with intentions of having a defendant followers. Same with gods, Just like how work of arts and fiction are created. [These people have no sick minds – correct your comments]

      In the people and language of Jualangs there is no word which means God because the have never created that concept. So the idea of believing in God does not exist. You may ask what do they believe in? They don’t have to.

      Like

  74. why
    February 6, 2016

    Are people with Christian names really atheist? or are they trying a slot in public lime light? European names are associated with Christianity. I know people can change their minds as they grow up but denying Christians is not atheism.

    Like

    • Dukawa
      February 6, 2016

      Of course they are not. When a few Christians behaviors are questionable, immoral and annoying some people take as the general behavior of all. People feel they are atheist once they detest Christians.

      Like

    • Dukawa
      February 6, 2016

      The group could not be registered because its compositions is suspicious. Why should a group of Christians pretend to be atheist. What is the motive?

      All these people will go through or have already gone through religious marriages, religious rights and they think in a religious way. remember culture are religious raced customs and so believing in the same is also being religious. Kenyan tribes are 100% religious.

      Does Kenya have atheist? Yes it does and majority of them are not by choice, like everybody else they were born so. They did not respond or could not connect to religions in schools or anywhere, they have no culture and do not relate themselves to any tribes. some do not do well as can’t easily get employment or relationships once you are known. Others have used deception to hide amongst the general population. How do I know this?

      Religion was started by ancient romans to perpetuate mystic and have unending world presence.

      Like

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